Lisa Nandy: 'There is a wealth of talent out there we’re just not drawing on'

Lisa Nandy (Photography by Louise Haywood-Schiefer)

Sienna Rodgers

@siennamarla

“You’re looking at me like it’s my fault!” says Lisa Nandy when asked by The House about watching England get beaten by Spain in the Euros final. The new Culture, Media and Sport Secretary flew back from Berlin just hours before the interview, having witnessed the defeat in person, alongside the Prime Minister.

“He said to me when he appointed me to the job: ‘My emphasis is on delivery. And if you don’t deliver the right result in the Euros, then this may be the shortest-lived ministerial appointment that I make.’ So, I had quite a lot riding on last night. But as of this morning, I’m still in a job.”

“I want to end the needless party politicisation of these appointments and draw on the widest pool of talent”

She won’t say whether former England manager Gareth Southgate should get a knighthood – “it’s certainly above my paygrade” – but the Cabinet minister is a “huge fan”. “I think what he’s done on the pitch and off the pitch in football has been extraordinary,” she says. 

This admiration fits neatly into the narrative of her first policy announcement as Culture Secretary: this government will “put rocket boosters under grassroots sport” with further investment, she declares, because “talent is everywhere but opportunity is not”.

“We may not have a trophy as the legacy of the Euros. But what we do have is an ongoing commitment now to really invest in those young people.”

As MP for Wigan, Nandy has been outspoken about failures in football governance. Her own club, Wigan Athletic, went into administration – “because of dodgy owners”, she says – as did nearby Bury FC, which was expelled from the Football League.

“My stepdad was a lifelong season ticket holder at Gigg Lane,” she recalls, referring to Bury FC’s ground. “His last words when he died in a hospice in Rochdale a few years ago were ‘what’s the score?’. It’s a bit of a running joke in our family that thank goodness he never learned the answer, because it was not good news.”

With both clubs close to her saved, Nandy says: “We were the lucky ones. But clubs right around the country – Morecambe, Portsmouth, Reading – there are just too many examples where the fans are supposed to be at the centre of a sport that was built by and for working-class people, and instead the fans come last. I’m determined that that’s going to change.”

The government is keen to push on with plans for a new football regulator, which came out of a review chaired by former Conservative MP Tracey Crouch. The Football Governance Bill was dropped once the election was called but Labour is bringing it back. 

Nandy praises the legislation as “well-drafted” and highlights measures including fans having more power over their heritage and assets and being at the centre of decision-making in clubs, and protections from poor ownership through a strengthened owners and directors test. The Secretary of State met with Crouch just days into the job: “We were both at the semi-finals in Dortmund, so it wasn’t a great hardship.”

Heading the Department for Culture, Media and Sport means Nandy will be overseeing a number of independent public appointments. In government the Conservatives were regularly criticised for interfering inappropriately in these hires, from the BBC to Ofcom to the British museum. Nandy promises to put an end to such meddling. 

“It’s not lost on me that over the last 14 years, Labour has been in opposition, and there are good people – like Tracey Crouch, who we’ve just been discussing – who have real experience of having been at the heart of government in this era,” she says.

“I want to end the needless party politicisation of these appointments and draw on the widest pool of talent. But I also want to make sure that we appoint far more people from outside London and the South East. At the moment, only 30 per cent of appointments that have been made to those public bodies are from outside of London and the South East. 

“There is a wealth of talent and experience out there in the country that we’re just not drawing on. And for far too long, too many people in our communities have not been seen themselves, their families, their communities, their heritage and their inheritance reflected in our national story. I think that fed polarisation in this country.”

She reveals: “On day one, one of the things that I asked the department to do was to make sure that when they bring shortlists to me and to Chris Bryant and Steph Peacock, who are the amazing ministers in this department, that they’re bringing us the widest possible pool of people with a particular emphasis on making sure that we reach people that we haven’t reached before.”

“I’ve been a big supporter of the trans community… But there is a consideration when it comes to sport about biology – it does matter”

Nandy believes “we’ve just lost the art, in Britain, of disagreeing agreeably” and pledges to aid its return. She has said the recent election campaign was the most “toxic” she has seen, though tells The House her own experience of toxicity was more pronounced during the Brexit years. “I was somebody who supported Remain in the campaign but thought that we shouldn’t have a second referendum, and as a consequence managed to upset 100 per cent of the British public,” she says.

“You can’t expect the debate out there in the public not to be toxic and polarising if the way that you’ve conducted yourself at the highest levels of government is toxic and polarising. We’ve had far too much of that in recent years, and we intend to take a different approach as a new government.”

One issue frequently characterised as “toxic” is gender and sex, and trans participation in sport falls squarely under Nandy’s brief. Her predecessor, Lucy Frazer, told sports bodies they needed an unambiguous position on inclusion and urged them to place a blanket ban on trans athletes from all elite women’s sports. The current approach, by contrast, is for the decision to be made by individual sports. 

“I think that is the right approach. And I think we ought to respect the fact that they’re far more expert in making those judgments and decisions than we are,” Nandy says. She concludes that “broadly speaking, most sports have got that right”.

“Obviously, as I’m newly appointed and I’m talking to stakeholders, I want to make sure that they feel supported to be able to make those decisions fairly. But I think most have come to the conclusion that – although they want to be as inclusive as possible – biology does matter when it comes to sport, and that it’s impossible to balance the requirement of fairness without ensuring that they take biology into account. I think that’s broadly sensible.”

Unlike Starmer, Nandy signed the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights pledge card during the 2020 leadership race, which stated that “there is no material conflict between trans rights and women’s rights” and the party should expel members with “transphobic views”. In recent years she has regularly spoken of supporting her trans constituents. 

“I’ve been a big supporter of the trans community. I think they’re the most marginalised, discriminated against group of people in our country at the moment. And I want them to know and to feel that this government cares deeply about them being included, and being respected, and being afforded the same dignity as everybody else. But there is a consideration when it comes to sport about biology – it does matter – and about fairness,” she says.

And is she comfortable with Health Secretary Wes Streeting’s new ban on puberty blockers being prescribed to children with gender dysphoria? “I think the approach that Wes has taken, as somebody who has been a strong supporter of the trans community and continues to be, is the right one,” Nandy confirms.

“I’m very opposed to the idea that politicians should be telling the media and the press what they can and can’t say”

Another part of her brief is press regulation. Asked whether Leveson 2 is dead, she replies: “Well, it’s not something that we committed to in the manifesto.”

The Culture Secretary explains: “We need a proper regulation system that supports the public to be able to have trust in what is reported… I’m very opposed to the idea that politicians should be telling the media and the press what they can and can’t say. The relationship between politicians and the media is always complicated. It can be very uncomfortable at times. But that’s important to democracy.

“Where we feel criticism of this government is unfair, we’ll say so, but I want us to move away as a country from this ongoing running commentary from ministers about whether they consider the actions of the media to be appropriate or not, trying to interfere in what is said and what is not said. All this nonsense about attacking institutions for being too woke, for lacking impartiality.”

In a 2020 piece for LabourList, while pitching to members in the leadership contest, Nandy set out her views on reform of the BBC. Among her ideas were mutualising parts of the corporation, which would involve direct ownership by licence fee payers. Does that still appeal to her? 

“As we look again at the BBC, as the charter comes up for renewal, and the review that the last government started will continue, albeit with a slightly different emphasis under this government, these are conversations that I’m keen to have: how do we give people far more of a stake in the future of their national broadcaster?” she says.

So, pressing her again, would Nandy consider mutualisation as an option? Her answer suggests it will be explored in future. 

“I’ve come to this with fresh eyes. I’ve traditionally been a very big supporter of the licence fee, as has the Prime Minister, and it’s certainly our intention that there’ll be no interference with that until the current charter runs out in 2027. But I’m really keen to explore all options with stakeholders, with the view in mind to safeguarding the future of the BBC.”

Nandy, who was promoted from shadow cabinet minister for international development after the election, is clearly excited about her new role. While having her photo taken, she describes the thrill of opening her red box for the first time and seeing the words “for decision”. Having entered the Commons when Labour left office in 2010, finally being able to enact change comes as a huge relief.

She describes facing snobbish attitudes already, however, from those who assume being Northern means lacking culture. This is particularly ironic in the case of Nandy, who once sat on the board of the Lyric Hammersmith and whose father, Dipak Nandy, was a member of the BBC general council and a British Film Institute governor.

The Secretary of State admits to disliking abstract art, though, saying “I don’t get it” on her recent trip to the Government Art Collection, where she picked out works for her large ministerial office. “I didn’t cover myself with glory,” she laughs, and reports being met with confusion when she asked: “Have you got anything with miners?” The replacement art has not yet arrived when we are invited into the department, but among her choices was LS Lowry, known for his depictions of Greater Manchester.

A dedicated Taylor Swift fan, Nandy jokes that she may appoint fellow enthusiast and former Tory MP Dehenna Davison to a position solely focused on setting up a meeting between the trio. And she describes sitting behind “this amazing sounding woman” at the Euros semi-final who was shouting “Shut up! Shut up!” at the Netherlands fans, before turning around to find it was Adele.

“I also met Ed Sheeran the other day, who is a really passionate advocate of music education in state schools, which is – excuse the pun – music to my ears. [Education Secretary] Bridget Phillipson is about to launch a review of the curriculum and creative education is going to be at the heart of that, so we’re working very closely together,” she says.

Nandy hopes to add Beyoncé to her list of celebrity partnerships. Before we part ways, she promises to give The House the exclusive joint interview when it happens. 

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