The Ethos interview: Unison's Dave Prentis

Unison is a public services union but you work with – and represent employees from – both the public and private sectors. Who should provide public services?

We have a very clear view. We believe that public services are best provided by the public sector. Because you get the public service ethos, the services are provided on a comprehensive basis and not for profit. But over 20 years ago, we recognised that privatisation was on the increase and that we could no longer be just a public sector union.

I came from Nalgo, whose rules said we could only recruit public sector workers. This meant that if any members were moved into privatised industry, we could not continue to represent them. It just didn’t make sense, so we had to become a public service union. If public services are being provided by the private sector, then we must still represent those workers.

Overall, how do you rate the experience of privatisation over the past 20 or 30 years?

As a union, we believe that the users of services come first. There has been a move to provide better quality services and we have worked well with some of the really big private companies – when we have been able to ensure there is no two-tier workforce, that people who transfer over and workers coming in enjoy the same rates and conditions, that pensions are protected and training is satisfactory.

The big companies – Serco, Capita, Carillion, Compass, ISS – did accept better workforce relationships, which lead to better services, especially under the last government. Where this government has gone wrong is in getting rid of those protections. But overall, it’s very difficult to say that any improvements made through privatisation could not have been made without the upheaval it caused. The evidence base just isn’t there. The worst privatisations ensued during the Thatcher years: water, gas, electricity. Very few can say that those privatisations worked in favour of the service users.

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Ethosis aimed at public sector leaders, politicians, academics and policy specialists debating the future of public services today.